3000 LB Xpedition ADV5 Operation in 4 wheel drive and Low Range - Belt Burn

[f150harley]

When operating Xpedition in conditions that stress the drive components of the machine it is advisable to engage 4x4 and Low Range earlier than I have with previous versions of Polaris equipment. Some say that goes without saying given operating characteristics of CVT clutch. However, dealer confirmed that the burned rubber smell coming from the machine when under load situations was likely caused by not engaging drive features sooner that take full advantage of gearing / increased traction capabilities of the Xpedition. Dealer replaced 29 hour belt with burn marks with a new belt. $200 bucks! thank you very much.

 

[Clayton]

When operating Xpedition in conditions that stress the drive components of the machine it is advisable to engage 4x4 and Low Range earlier than I have with previous versions of Polaris equipment. Some say that goes without saying. However, dealer confirmed that the burned rubber smell coming from the machine when under load situations was likely caused by not engaging drive features sooner that take full advantage of gearing / increased traction capabilities of the Xpedition. Dealer replaced 29 hour belt with burn marks with a new belt. $200 bucks! thank you very much.

Are you new to how a cvt works?

 

[f150harley]

No, most second and third owners have a rudimentary understanding of CVT... But I expected that question. "A CVT clutch changes its shape so the clutch drive belt doesn't have to shift. That means it can stay in the optimal RPM range all the way until you hit the mechanical limitations of the clutch. That's the main advantage of Polaris' primary clutch setup—you get continuous power when you lay on the gas." My observation included in my initial post recognizes that understanding. Thank you for your question.

 

[JTBarlow]

A clutch kit can also help, with a heavier springs for better belt grip and tuned primary weights for proper engagement. I went from stock, where I’d floor it and not know if the belt was slipping or the tires spinning, to a Gilomen clutch kit where if anything is slipping loose it’s the tires.

Clutch engagement is super smooth at around 2400 rpm and I’ve got the weights tuned for 8700 rpm top end at 1800’ elevation. When I ride in the higher elevations it puts me around 8000 rpm top end.

 

[f150harley]

A clutch kit can also help, with a heavier springs for better belt grip and tuned primary weights for proper engagement. I went from stock, where I’d floor it and not know if the belt was slipping or the tires spinning, to a Gilomen clutch kit where if anything is slipping loose it’s the tires.

Clutch engagement is super smooth at around 2400 rpm and I’ve got the weights tuned for 8700 rpm top end at 1800’ elevation. When I ride in the higher elevations it puts me around 8000 rpm top end.

Thanks for the input. It appears that in my stock setup my rig seems to exhibit the same symptom(s). First noticed it going up a relatively steep grade gravel road (elevations between 6000 and 9000) that passenger vehicles traverse as well. Floor it, the RPM's were excessive, however the MPH wasn't going anywhere. Seems like an engineering design flaw at least in my stock rig and apparently yours. Do you know if there is a way to adjust the stock setup or is an aftermarket clutch kit the only solution?

 

[JTBarlow]

That’s normal operations for a cvt. When you throttle up it essentially gears down for increased torque, even though the relative speed may not increase much. The motor in the Xpedition is the same one used in the RZR XP 1000 and as such is designed for high rpm. Using a “Cruiser” clutch kit can lower the shift rpm but will drop it out of the range of hp and torque that the engine is tuned for, resulting in somewhat sluggish behavior.

As for the factory clutches, there’s no adjustment. Clutch kits adjust shift rpm by adding or removing weight at different points in the primary clutch weights. And then belt slippage is reduced by a stronger spring in the secondary pinching the belt more firmly. Polaris is a little trick with this part by using a slightly tacky compound in their belt that helps its grip. But after bit of use it dries out and starts slipping more. Or if you use aftermarket belts with a stock clutch it’s more likely to slip.

 

[f150harley]

JT Barlow, Thanks for explaining. Are you suggesting that the ECU tune mod be used with the Gilomen clutch kit to maintain optimum torque and HP compatibility with each other throughout the acceleration range .... or? Also, I don't fully understand how elevation comes into play other than the air/fuel mix needs modified by the ECU as altitude changes. In your opinion did Polaris miss the boat with the stock setup or are factors like owners driving style and target operational environmental factors too varied for Polaris engineers to design a single solution for? Only 29 hours on my car and still under warranty.

 

[JTBarlow]

JT Barlow, Thanks for explaining. Are you suggesting that the ECU tune mod be used with the Gilomen clutch kit to maintain optimum torque and HP compatibility with each other throughout the acceleration range .... or? Also, I don't fully understand how elevation comes into play other than the air/fuel mix needs modified by the ECU as altitude changes. In your opinion did Polaris miss the boat with the stock setup or are factors like owners driving style and target operational environmental factors too varied for Polaris engineers to design a single solution for? Only 29 hours on my car and still under warranty.

You’d have to speak with Gilomen, Aftermarket Assassins or Bikeman about the tune. I do know they can work with the fuel and timing maps and could probably get a better tune for low rpm, but the current tunes focus more towards higher rpm.

I’m also not sure how exactly elevation changes the rpm but there’s a definite difference in riding where I live that’s around 1600’ to going up into Utah where the elevation ranges 2500-7000 in the places we ride. Usually 300-400 rpm difference and sometimes more.

Polaris essentially builds the machines to be “middle of the road” so to speak. Some people will be loaded to the gills while others ride with a basically empty machine. They also have customers in all different terrains and elevations so it’d be impossible for them to custom build every machine for where it’s going to be sold. So they just average everything out and leave a little leeway for safety and longevity. That leaves a fair amount of customization available to the customers for their particular riding style.

 

[JTBarlow]

My brother and I have both done ECU tunes and clutch kits. His has the Aftermarket Assassins set and mine the Gilomen set. There are only minor differences in the clutch kits and tunes but performance wise I can’t tell any difference. Aftermarket Assassins offers a billet primary clutch cover plate that moves more air for belt cooling and is stronger than the factory one. A worthwhile investment if you’re going for performance. Gilomen’s tune allows the machine to be started in gear while the AA one doesn’t.

 

[f150harley]

JT ....Performance isn't a primary goal. I'm interested in reliability, comfort and low frequency of maintenance. 8 to 10 extra horsepower is always nice. However, I don't want to replace belts every 30 hours or even every few hundred hours like I've done so far. My typical gross weight is likely below 3250 pounds even with the two small dogs. I'm transitioning from a small light stock RZR 900 2 seater that I never replaced a belt in for 9 years. Tires would always spin before belt would slip. In Winter I ride between 2500 and 5000 feet. In Summer between 4200 and up over 10000 feet on occasion. Also, I gave up weekend mechanic activities years ago. The new stock Polaris replacement belt seems to grab at earlier RPM's and doesn't provide the super smooth start the original stock belt did. I'm thinking that I'll test drive it a bit including keeping it in low gear and often in 4 wheel when below 15 mph regardless of driving surface/incline. Allow time for new belt to break in before I romp on it. Evaluate belt burn for a ride or two. It's not clear exactly how one, two or 4 wheel drive modes interact with ECU and possible but not probable belt spin other than what we've discussed already. Further Standard vs Sport vs Comfort suspension mode may interact with belt spin if at all. I tend to leave it in the comfort setting under the theory I want comfort over performance but don't have any knowledge of exactly how it works. Before I upgrade to third party Clutch and possibly performance ECU ... I'm wondering why you and your brother made that transition from the stock components?

 

[JTBarlow]

JT ....Performance isn't a primary goal. I'm interested in reliability, comfort and low frequency of maintenance. 8 to 10 extra horsepower is always nice. However, I don't want to replace belts every 30 hours or even every few hundred hours like I've done so far. My typical gross weight is likely below 3250 pounds even with the two small dogs. I'm transitioning from a small light stock RZR 900 2 seater that I never replaced a belt in for 9 years. Tires would always spin before belt would slip. In Winter I ride between 2500 and 5000 feet. In Summer between 4200 and up over 10000 feet on occasion. Also, I gave up weekend mechanic activities years ago. The new stock Polaris replacement belt seems to grab at earlier RPM's and doesn't provide the super smooth start the original stock belt did. I'm thinking that I'll test drive it a bit including keeping it in low gear and often in 4 wheel when below 15 mph regardless of driving surface/incline. Allow time for new belt to break in before I romp on it. Evaluate belt burn for a ride or two. It's not clear exactly how one, two or 4 wheel drive modes interact with ECU and possible but not probable belt spin other than what we've discussed already. Further Standard vs Sport vs Comfort suspension mode may interact with belt spin if at all. I tend to leave it in the comfort setting under the theory I want comfort over performance but don't have any knowledge of exactly how it works. Before I upgrade to third party Clutch and possibly performance ECU ... I'm wondering why you and your brother made that transition from the stock components?

Riding like that I wouldn’t bother with a tune. These machines are designed for high rpm tho so if you’d like it lower/quieter the clutch kit would be recommended with a cruiser setup. That’s basically the only reasonable way to bring the rpm down. The unreasonable way would be to re-gear the transmission . Larger tires will do a little but it’s minimal at best.

4WD isn’t really necessary or recommended for full time driving just for the added wear on the front differential. Basically anytime I’m not on pavement it’s in 2WD and only engage 4WD sparingly as needed. The front diff isn’t a true differential on these and will wear out quickly with excessive use.

On the throttle switch, Comfort reduces throttle response and also lowers the top rpm of the engine. On comfort mine tops out around 7600 rpm. I generally run this setting for extremely rocky terrain where my foot tends to bounce on the throttle.

Standard allows normal rpm and the standard throttle response the engine would have without the switch.

Sport increases throttle response. It doesn’t add any power or rpm. This setting is very jumpy on my machine so I only use it in loose sand and such where the tires will break loose easily and not make the machine jump.

For us, our riding varies from rocky desert trails to sand dunes. One of our favorite places to ride has a lot of powdery sand trails that really soak up power. So ours is tuned for performance. We also tow camp trailers with them. Clutch kits help increase belt life under these conditions. Higher rpm allows for better performance and noise isn’t a particular issue for us since we pretty much always wear headsets for the coms.

 

[BADXP]

F150 - JT has given you some great information here. It does sound like you would be a great candidate for a cruiser clutch kit. I don’t view the clutch as an Xpedition design flaw - a clutch kit is one of the first/best modifications that many are adding to any make model. They can all be improved from factory baseline and better tuned to individual driving style.

JT mentioned the Xpedition “power band” and where this motor likes to make power in the 7-9k rpm range. I wish everyone would keep this in mind as it relates to the noise complaints- we are turning several thousand more RPM than a stock Ranger or Defender. Do I wish it was quieter? Sure. I also wish it had 1000 hp, 40 inches of suspension travel, and the road manners of my wife’s Escalade. It doesn’t so I’ll enjoy what it does do great and keep looking…

 

[f150harley]

JT and Bad: thanks for taking the time to explain "HOW" these various factors affect the driving experience including the mechanics of the various mechanical / electronic infrastructure components. Very much appreciated. I tend to move into performance mode for short bursts of 1 to 4 minutes on occasion. Even short out of the hole drag race with any other machine just for grins. But, I don't run flat out, full throttle like a 24 to 40 year old might. I'm 75 years young. Noise is not a big issue because I've been wearing a Com capable headset for music and noise reduction even at low RPM's. Is the kit at this link considered a "cruiser" low RPM cvt? QUIET- LOW RPM FUEL MILEAGE CLUTCH KIT FOR XPEDITION - RZR 1000 XP

 

[f150harley]

JT and Brad: Where as the one at this link is a high RPM Performance KIT? XPEDITION - RZR 1000 XP SUPER CLUTCH KIT

 

[JTBarlow]

JT and Bad: thanks for taking the time to explain "HOW" these various factors affect the driving experience including the mechanics of the various mechanical infrastructure. Very much appreciated. I tend to move into performance mode for short bursts of 1 to 4 minutes on occasion. But, I don't run flat out, full throttle like a 24 to 40 year old might. I'm 75 years young. Noise is not a big issue because I've been wearing a Com capable headset for music and noise reduction even at low RPM's. Is the kit at this link considered a "cruiser" low RPM cvt? QUIET- LOW RPM FUEL MILEAGE CLUTCH KIT FOR XPEDITION - RZR 1000 XP

Yes. That’s the set.

 

[JTBarlow]

JT and Brad: Where as the one at this link is a high RPM Performance KIT? XPEDITION - RZR 1000 XP SUPER CLUTCH KIT

This is the kit I put on my Xpedition. While it can be weighted up to get the lower rpm it has the secondary clutch components for the higher rpm and performance.

 

[Ryan]

Update on Aftermarket Assassins, I have been talking with them about their tune and stage 2 kit over the last week. They have been super responsive and informed me that their latest tune does remove the seatbelt limiter and start in park safety features. They updated the web site during our discussion. Just passing it on...